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| Dungeons and Dragons Core Rulebook Gift Set, 4th Edition | 
 enlarge | Author: Wizards Rpg Team
Brand: Wizards of the Coast
Category: Book
List Price: $104.95
Buy New: $54.54
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Avg. Customer Rating:  193 reviews
Sales Rank: 1902
Format: Box Set
Media: Hardcover
Edition: 4th
Number Of Items: 1
Pages: 832
Shipping Weight (lbs): 6.9
Dimensions (in): 11.6 x 8.7 x 2.4
ISBN: 0786950633
Dewey Decimal Number: 793
EAN: 9780786950638
ASIN: 0786950633
Publication Date: June 6, 2008
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| Customer Reviews:
 The Good and The Bad June 9, 2008
36 out of 52 found this review helpful
I really wanted to like this edition but I can't get over the fact that some of the 'fixes' to streamline the system either were unneeded or are very limiting. It gives you the feel that it is more of a supplement designed for the D&D Insider, then a stand alone game system.
A few notes about the individual books.
The Players Handbook: Being a new system, with new terminology and definitions, a glossary should have been included. I have spent far too much time paging through the book `double checking' to see if I understood some of the new terms. I enjoyed the power system, it opened play to some fun tactical options and cinematic abilities, but it really neutered the flexibility of spell casters. The skill system is okay at best. Most skills are well defined and are duly compressed, like stealth, but others are out of place, like Dungeoneering, or poorly defined, like Diplomacy. I still can not figure out the need to fix the healing system, and completely dislike the surge idea.
The Monster Manual: My favorite parts of the MM are the new powers and the glossary =). Averaging about two pages per creature and giving differing level examples, the space doesn't feel too wasted, but at the same time there is a distinct feeling you are missing out on a lot of monsters.
The Dungeon Masters Guide: Wow, Ummm... Yeah. I would like to balance the good with the bad in my review but I find it difficult to do with this book. I enjoyed the experience point system, the artwork is nice, and I like the system for traps, but I can honestly tell you I don't think I will ever use the book. I was also very disappointed with the near destruction of the magic items system. I understand the `balance' concept they were trying to achieve, but magic items are one of the core untouchables of the D&D system. I think they forgot the fact that the ultimate balance within the magic item system was the DM =).
Overall I think the system is a great source to `borrow' ideas from to supplement your current 3.5 system, but it doesn't have enough substance to stand on it own.
 Good financial deal.... still... just say no... June 14, 2008
34 out of 50 found this review helpful
OK....... I really REALLY REALLY wanted to love this game. To be honest I've been a sucker for every incarnation of DnD that's come out. I liked all of em in their own way. I prebought this one and every 'pre-book' they've put out... We were all so eager for this new incarnation. It read so well. I can't believe this, but this game has actually managed to depress me!! I HAVE played it. Just spent three hours playing, in fact.
When we finished the party reported that they had the distinct feeling that we had just played a board game version of WOW. Now we all LOVE WOW in our gaming group.. but that's NOT what we sat down to play around a table. We saw nothing 'quick' or 'streamlined' about the gaming experience. We moved pieces around a board adhereing to movement rules and 'squares' for this and that in a fashion that reminded me way too much of the old 'Heroes Quest', albeit a complicated version! Were the game mechanics good? Yes. Why did I give it a 'one star'? Because whilst the game is a good miniature warfare game it seemed to rob the flavor of DnD. The character creation was extrememly confined and the selections were limited. Gone was the ability to customize your character to the point that you actually felt like you had something unique. You will feel as if WOC is controlling the direction your character takes. The game DEMANDED a board and game pieces.. I've always felt that DnD's flavor relied on the 'minds eye', which is so much more colorful in my head than staring at plastic pieces on a piece of cardboard. I do realize that the 'original' DnD was just that, a wargame with a fantasy element. But I feel it evolved into so much more... I guess we've 'returned to our roots'... so why do I feel like we climbed back into the primordial ooze?!
A great deal of the time the magic users felt like they were 'hitting the hot button key'. They had one or two actions that they relied on every round to cause the maximum amount of damage. No inovation or imagination. Everything was geared towards 'how does this directly effect combat'.
The DM's guide isn't that bad. Reminds me a LOT of the first edition book. Information on how to be an effective dm, traps, dungeons, and artifacts. Not what 'thirders' would expect, but not bad.
The Monster Manual is awful. A third of the pictures are just rehashed from all the previous Monster Manuals. The book is concerned with stats so you can play your miniature game effectively. Again.... great if your into miniature gaming. The ecology and culture information is virtually non-existant. Make all the arguments you want about this now being in the pervue of the DM.. the honest answer is that WOC is being lazy. You have a vast variety of stats to place against your carefully created stats, but very little flavor to guide you in roleplaying the encounters.
I have read that the streamlined combat will enhance the rolplaying as you'll have more time available.... that was really exciting.. too bad this wasn't the case. Going to miniatures and a combat board, whilst carefully figuring out where your party and the encounter is, everytime combat arose was time consuming. You'll also notice that you'll have to change the map everytime, of course, which is also time consuming.
If you LOVE miniature wargaming. If Warhammer is something you daydream about.... this is the game for you! As a miniature game experience it ranks a three or four...
If you love games that take place in your head fired by limitless imagination then your probably going to be disappointed.
I really feel like power gamers are going to LOVE this game and probably flame me for my remarks. The game is geared towards being 'godlike'. I'm not knocking this. If you love powergaming and twinking then this is DEFFINITLEY the game for you. To each his or her own. You should buy it immediately... and keep DnD fiscally sound enough to perhaps manage an inevitable rewrite that might restore my faith.
Ironically I'll be keeping my set... I think it'll make a great board game for those rare nights when I just wanna run through dungeons killings things and working off frustrations. According to the DMG I don't even need a DM to do this..... Sound like any RPG you ever heard of???? No story teller... no RPG. Just another board wargame.. albeit a pretty good one.
Good day!
 4th Edition - the best RPG I've played June 22, 2008
34 out of 52 found this review helpful
Dungeons and Dragons has been a staple in my nerd pedigree since I was 16 years old. I've played on and off since high school, playing D&D 2nd edition and D&D 3.5. For most of this time I was the dungeon master of the game, putting together adventures, customizing monsters and encounters, and building the story through which the players would all play.
About a year ago I got quite frustrated with D&D 3.5. Our gaming group, a group of adult friends who gathered monthly to play for about four or five hours, had reached level 13. Most of the players ran more than one character, sometimes because another member of the group left and sometimes to fill a role the party missed. During these games every battle took nearly two hours. It got so bad that I had to tune adventures around four, three, and sometimes as few as two combat encounters per adventure simply to ensure we'd leave at a normal time. Modules like "City of the Spider Queen" had to be completely re-written to let our group have any chance at finishing it.
At Gencon 2007, Wizards of the Coast announced Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition and, a year later, I now have the 4th edition Players Handbook, Monster Manual, and Dungeon Master's Guide sitting on my desk.
D&D 4th edition solved many of the problems I have with 3.5. Combat is fast, characters are streamlined but still powerful, I'm able to write and run the adventures I want, and everyone at the table is having a great time.
Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition is the best tabletop RPG I have ever played.
What makes 4th Edition Great
There's a lot of great stuff in 4th edition but a few of these stand out as the clear advantages of the system.
First, the rules are simplified and more consistent. For example, attacks against enemies always mean rolling a d20 and adding your modifier. It doesn't matter if you're hitting with a sword or firing a fireball. You always roll attack rolls. This is a big switch from 3.5 where spells required defenders to roll saving throws while fighters rolled attacks against static defender ACs. The four defenses in 4th edition; AC, fortitude, reflex, and will; make sense and feel natural.
Second, all character classes are fun to play. The cleric in 4th edition sure isn't your daddy's cleric. Though healing is still a large part of a cleric's job, the cleric can drop a lot of damage and boost a party's effectiveness quite a bit. This is the first D&D cleric that is genuinely fun to play.
Third, class powers rock. I remember when I first saw feats in D&D 3.5 how I saw them as the evolution of skills. Feats were skills that actually meant something in combat. Now combat powers take that up a step further. Character powers are the true strength in your character. They are the abilities you will use the most often in any given combat. They are the cinematic action-packed moves that impress the rest of the players and make you feel like a real hero instead of a farmer with a sword.
Fourth, character power and monster power is very well balanced. The power curves in D&D is much smoother from level 1 to 30 than it was from 1 to 20 in 3.5. One of the brilliant changes in D&D 4th edition is the monster power levels. Instead of simply having a monster level that compares to a character level, monsters can come in four different types: minions, standard guys, elite guys, and solo guys. Minions may be as powerful statistically as a player at any level but any single successful attack kills them in a single blow. This way a level 23 party may get attacked by twenty level 20 abyssal ghouls but any single hit on any of them will drop them dead. Normal guys are the typical monsters we're used to. Elite guys are powerful versions of normal guys but count as two, have twice the hit points, and often have some sort of secondary attacks. Solo guys, like dragons and beholders, can fight off an entire party by themselves. Again, these can be at any level, so a level 3 solo white dragon still counts as a single solo creatures as does a level 30 solo ancient red dragon. As a DM, these make it a lot easier to build powerful boss creatures surrounded by threatening fodder like a good John Woo movie.
Fourth, and most importantly, 4th edition is simply more fun to play. Players focus on their powers instead of digging into the minutia of the rules. Fighters have a whole pile of actions to perform while wizards are much more streamlined and focused instead of choosing from hundreds of possible options while the rest of the players look bored.
The Problems of 4E
D&D 4th edition isn't perfect. For one, since every attack requires an attack roll, players will miss a lot more often than they used to in 3.5. Wizards always had the option to cast a magic missile and do a little damage. Now magic missiles can miss, something unheard of for the last 30 years. When your turn may not come around for ten minutes or so, it's pretty lame to miss your roll and have to wait another ten minutes.
Second, 4th edition is really built around miniatures on a battle grid. While players can possibly play D&D with just dialog and maybe some paper diagrams, most of the rules focus on a square battle grid and miniatures. For the past two years or so I've become hopelessly addicted to D&D miniatures so this isn't a problem for me. It justifies the money I've spent.
Third, character creation is still pretty complicated. Attributes, races, classes, and items all have modifiers to your baseline statistics that require quite a lot of page flipping. For example, to calculate your athletics skill check you have to know your level, your attribute modifier, your possible racial modifier, your class trained skills, and any possible armor modifier. For an experienced player this isn't so bad, and its a LOT better than the overly complicated skill system in 3.5, but it makes it difficult to quickly build characters for a one-night game. I personally can't wait for some sort of online javascript character generator that can help me quickly build PCs for a one-night game. In the mean time, I'm back to using PC-like D&D miniatures for quick games or 1 on 1 games.
The Fear of Change
There's a lot of criticism surrounding 4th edition. Amazon currently posts a customer rating of 3 out of 5. Many of the reviewers don't even own the books but simply attack with many various criticisms that generally come down to the following:
4th Edition is too simplified and misses a lot of the stuff I had and liked in 3.5.
I already have too much invested in 3.5 and I don't want to switch.
4th Edition is World of Warcraft on paper.
Nearly all of these arguments come down to a single problem; a fear of change.
I don't know how many of the critics are actual Dungeon Masters and I don't know of those who are DMs how many have tried 4th edition, but after reading through and playing through a few D&D 4th edition games, as a DM I can't see ever going back. In my 3.5 games the planning was too complicated, too much time was spent at the table looking up strange rules, and combat took forever. 4th edition gets rid of all of that without losing the tactics and fun that makes a game like D&D great.
I can understand those who feel like their shelf full of 3.5 books suddenly became worthless. However, looking at my own substantial collection of books, I see very few I'd actually give away. Many of them, like the Book of Vile Darkness and the two Fiendish Codices bring me nostalgia even now. Game systems change and there's no one forcing anyone to switch. Everyone knew Wizards would come out with a new version some day and frankly, I'm glad they did.
The "D&D = Warcraft" straw-man argument is perplexing. First, a pen and paper game is never like a computer game. Second, WoW is pretty popular so who cares if it does steal from it. There are elements to D&D that mimic some of the rules of WoW such as the talent trees and some of the character class attributes, but combat is still very much D&D and 4th Edition definitely has its own flavor.
D&D's Biggest Problem
There's one large unwritten problem surrounding a game like D&D, one that has nothing to do with the rules or the cost of the books. Sometimes its just hard to find a group with which to play. I've been lucky in my life to have four of five good D&D groups that played for over a few years. I'm very lucky to have two groups now, one a weekly game that I run with my friends and another that I play in every other week. This mostly comes from the location in which I live, there are enough people around the DC area to find a few different groups of folks. For folks living out in the sticks, however, finding a group can be rough.
Add onto this the stigma of being a D&D player, one we often enjoy together but one that gets in the way when we want to find or build a group, and many might toss D&D aside and focus on computer games instead. I know there were times in my life where I really wanted to play D&D but was too shy to really hunt down and find a good group. It takes a lot of guts to invite yourself into a group of a bunch of strangers, especially for socially awkward folks like myself who tend to gravitate towards games like this.
There's no clear solution to this. The internet helps with sites like Meetup.com and various D&D boards where people meet and get together. However, as long as the game isn't mainstream, it will be hard for a lot of people to play.
I can think of only one solution that may help give players the opportunity to play: adventures written for two players. Like D&D miniatures, D&D could be played by two players, one as a DM and one as a player. The player character would have to fight alone but could fight down a series of nasty bad guys and solve a simple plot. I've read enough posts to see a high demand for one-on-one adventures but so far have seen very few ever published. Like soloing in World of Warcraft, one-on-one D&D adventures have a better opportunity to bring D&D to more people. I hope to see this expand in the future.
Until better solutions can be found, D&D will always be a hobbyist game played by a few folks in dark basements scattered across the country.
4th Edition, My New Favorite Game
As a DM, 4th edition is a dream. It gives me all the tools to build an exciting adventure that feels like an excellent action movie without worrying about power balance. Combat is fast and fun, with lots of options for both the players and the DMs. The rules are easy enough for veteran players to jump right in with mostly logical conclusions to the questions that come up during gameplay.
As a player, D&D 4th edition makes every class fun, gives enough options and customization to build the sort of character one wants to play without so much customization as to overwhelm. Class powers are the next evolution in character action providing the action-packed actions we'd expect in a good book or movie.
Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition is the best tabletop RPG I've ever played.
Very entertaining and fun: As good as you, the players, make it. June 7, 2008
30 out of 52 found this review helpful
I'm still awaiting my shipment of the core books, but from the first-hand impression that I got from playing at a recent convention, I must say that this will be a very enjoyable rendition of the game. Despite the many unfounded criticisms seen here from individuals who are just "eyeballing" the rules, 4th edition was created the way it is for several reasons.
Rolls in combat were simplified to reduce the amount of time to get from one PC to another. It can be very easy for a PC to lose interest in a game when the PC before them rolls 3 attacks for himself and 3 more attacks for each, let's say, elemental that they have summoned. That is 12 attacks to wade through, dragging down the pace of the game. And let's not get into a discussion about a maxed out fighter and Great Cleave against balanced enemies....
Some complaints are also against the lack of "fluff" or descriptive text. I believe that the designers made the core books with this level of general description so that the DM could use their imaginations a bit more. Nothing is more annoying than a PC complaining that my Drow NPC can't be good because, "It doesn't make sense since the book says so." Though this is not a problem with all gaming groups, a lack of too much detail in the CORE BOOKS makes alot of sense to me.
The lack of X favorite class: Whenever I get a chance to play, I really like playing either monks or druids. If WotC decided to delay these classes with the others for the purpose of getting it "just right", I wholeheartedly respect that because I would rather have a good, fleshed out, and effective monk later than a rushed and lackluster one now. If WotC delayed these classes to make an extra buck with a PHB2, then I respect that as well, because, let's face it, it's a good business model and I'd rather have one of my favorite gaming companies who produces one of my favorite games to prosper and explore different gaming terrain than to cling to a system that a few hurt players are complaining over.
Some say that the class roles are too restricting as well, but these are restrictions that we have placed on ourselves this whole time. WotC just made it more official. Throughout all iterations of this game, I doubt very many people rolled up a wizard for the sake of being a front line fighter. No one made a paladin to be a pure back line caster. Those roles are absolutely ridiculous for those fore mentioned classes in any edition of this game. The different tiers (especially paragon tier) allow for a great array of customization. When you gain an opportunity to select a single power when you level up, you choose between 2+ powers presented to you from your current level or below. And what's great is that it is all balanced and easy to employ as you progress.
Roll a d20, add half your level and the necessary ability modifier.
Compare to Armor Class/Skill check for your result.
Congratulations! You have made an attack roll/skill roll!
Easy, right?
It seems that for some players, they cannot seem to wrap their head around that concept, even though they have gone through 2nd edition's awful THAC0 system. For these players, nostalgia is more important than improved game mechanics and ease of play for newcomers. The perceived complexity is all in their head and unfounded.
I've always found it curious how much mud can be slung at something without so much as trying it. But in a way, I can understand these players, having bought a lot of 3.0 and 3.5 merchandise as they have. But the fact of the matter is that many of these criticisms are made to give reason to their reluctance to pay extra money for an upgraded game system and also to justify their nostalgia for their favorite edition. Without trying it out for yourself, one cannot know how much they have done right with this edition. Combat is fun for all participants. And as far as role play is concerned, please remember this:
Your experience is only as good as you, the player and dungeon master, allow it to be.
P.S. A recent thread speculated that it would be probable to kill Orcus (a God) in one round of combat using Blade Cascade (Unlimited hits until you miss, basically). Ridiculous, for many reasons:
Initiative +22, very possible for him to get the jump on you
AC 48, still hard to hit, even at Epic level
1,525 hit points, a lot of damage for your d6's to get through
A +36 attack as soon as you get close to him that stuns you and knocks you prone
+33 attack that drops you to 0 instantly
Please do not make outrageous claims like this. It shows you to be ignorant of the game.
D&D 4th Edition = FAIL June 10, 2008
30 out of 57 found this review helpful
I was really disappointed with the 4th edition. D&D 4th edition (dnd4) is the Microsoft Vista of the Role Playing Game world. I have been playing D&D and bought D&D products for close to 30 years. When they went from 2nd edition to 3rd edition. I thought that Wizards of The Coast (WoTC) did a great job in fixing a many of the problems in the game mechanics. You immediately felt like it was well thought out an well balanced. It didn't take very much to convert to and come to love the new version. They did a great job of capturing the feel of the game but with a modified rule set. As soon as I got it, I couldn't wait to use them. 3.5 was he best thing that ever happened to D&D.
I was excited for the 4.0 version because I expected them to continue to improve on the mechanics and streamline to the systems, especially those for combat and magic. The jump from 3.5 to 4.0 instead resulted in major foundational changes to the game. In this case, not just the rules but the actual feel of the game as well. No doubt 3.5 had some good features which needed improvement (two-weapon fighting, sorcerer class, etc.) but the basic system worked well and stayed true to the original. I compare dnd4 to Microsoft Vista because like vista it seems more cumbersome and complex than the original. Like Vista, dnd4 makes you want the publisher to pull it from the shelves and go back and work on it for another year or two before releasing it again.
I agree some other reviews that I've read which compare the new system to that of a Massively-Multiplayer Online (MMO) video game. I like playing MMOs. When I play an MMO, my focus is more on the mechanics and less on roleplaying. When I want to play an RPG, I'm far more interested in the interactions than the mechanics. In some cases it seems like they changed things for just for the sake of changing them. I think WoTC's intention was to try to appeal to a younger audience. One that grew up playing MMOs. The danger in this, is that you run the risk of alienating your core audience. Which is what I'm afraid WoTC may have done.
There were a number of systems that worked very well in 3.5 that went out with the bathwater. The new systems seems overly complicated rather than simplified. One of my favorite parts about the 3/3.5 systems was the increased flexibility in customizing your character. 4.0 seems to reduce your options while increasing the complexity. I think that the new races and classes should have been saved for particular campaign settings or supplements (e.g. artificer and warforged in Eberron). They also neeed to consider backwards compatibility. Even if I wanted to move my campaign to dnd4 what am I supposed to do with the gnomish sorcerers? (Both gnomes and sorcerers were removed from the game) There does seem to be some good ideas like ritual magic but I think this should have been a modification to the existing system rather than a complete rebuild. The treasure system is better but limited in choices. I also like the idea of quest rewards.
Unlike 3.0/3.5, I'm in no rush to start using the new version or replacing any more of my extensive collection of expensive 3.0/3.5 manuals. I expect to be playing 3.5 for a long time to come. Now I'm looking forward to D&D 5th edition when they can fix all the things they screwed up in the 4th edition.
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